I don’t have a question, just a statement also. I guess it is true that nationality can be based on (oral?) tradition. I grew up on my mother’s reservation (?)I don’t know where I would have ended up if I had been adopted out?).... as the comments made by the gentleman that was (just) talking... I was thirty-eight years old when I finally found my father. I used to be raised in Christianity (?) I didn't really ...I didn't care if he was black as coal. I just wanted to know who he was! He might have been a black Indian, for all I cared. When I found him, a new world was opened up, a new culture was opened up. …. (words missing) and, that is how I grew up. I didn't know anything about him ... because there was this thing that was kept from me–the other side of me, of my heritage...I feel that that if is wasn't for my Grandmother, which, you know, I value grandmothers, totally, because, in fact, they were the ones that kept the tradition alive, that kept traditional families together. Every time, it was grandmothers. It wasn't the mother, it was the grandmother. And that was where I was coming from. I agree, you know, I think it opens up other doors, many many other doors, and that there are probably people sitting here, that have never talked about anything of their past, that now, you know, are been allowed to open up -- where there are probably a lot of children out there, I know that in our nation there are children who have been kidnapped or, as the gentleman mentioned, you know, that are not with us because of those adoptions, or what have you. These are things that they never thought about. I know that there are a lot of children who are trying (to find) their way back. They might not be children, they might be adults. But, I thank you for this session. You know, I’m a tribal leader, and I was thinking when you were asking, well, what session (should I go to?) I guess I have the most experience for this workshop, so here I am! I thank you very much.
Chief Mankiller:
Thank you very much for that.
Dr. Johnson:
I just wanted to make one comment with regard to the relationship between the issue of sovereignty and making the Black’s claims of kinship – we have had a number of discussions in our organization among families that essentially define themselves as African Americans, this organization is mostly that, about the question of sovereignty, and there has never been any difficulty really understanding why Native peoples would want to determine who Native peoples are. In other words, the issue of self definition is at the heart also of African American concerns, so just as they would understand that Native Americans wouldn't want someone else defining who they were, African Americans do not want someone else defining who they are, and who they are is a complex mixture of lots of different streams, cultures, peoples. Now the difficulty for African Americans would be, with regard to whites, is that they have been so forced into the cauldron of blackness, by whites, as a totally deprived cauldron, that there is resistance to it. But, much of the mixture, at least mythologically, for black-white, came through rape. And so, there has been no great willingness to even acknowledge the white, for the shame and the sense of the origin of that mixture.
But, there has not been among black Americans, and the groups that I have dealt with, any sense that the mixture with Indians could have come the same way. And even when you have blacks as slaves to Indians, and I found that in my own family my connection is as a Freedman, we don’t really know any basis for saying that Charley Davis, my great great grand father, had any Indian blood, but we also see no evidence whatsoever, that if he did, it came through rape.
So there is a much greater willingness to accept that connection than it would be with whites, for most black Americans.
So the question, "do Native Peoples have a right to define themselves?" is almost instinctually understood and accepted in the dialogues we have had, by black Americans. But the turn around for it, and this is why the Seminole case is so crucial, because unlike the other nations, there is at least the perception that the Seminoles arose as a people, as a new people, precisely in "comrade in arms" collaboration between blacks and run-away (Creek) refugees, out of the U. S. into Florida. And their survival in the end depended on that collaboration. So, in a way, for it to be repudiated is itself to turn the sovereignty question upside down. It is a way of refusing to allow blacks to define themselves as connected, when in that case, both politically and genetically, most of them are!
And, for blacks looking for the genealogical card--some of the blacks, no doubt, are motivated by the desire to get a scholarship, maybe some Bingo money, some casino money, as are the whites! We certainly have seen that in Connecticut, and the Northeast, the Pequots have been a magnate.
But, the quest to know who they are, now, and the capacity to find out, is greater than it has been among black Americans, in generations, maybe ever [especially with the Indian records, which are more complete for the slavery period than other sources] And, so you confront a special problem if somebody says, "no you must not include the Native connection in that mix."
So we have to find a way to be political allies, cultural kin, and respect the quest now among young and old to answer some of the questions our grandmothers and grandfathers never wanted to talk about. And we have a chance to do that -- so I wouldn't downplay the genealogical side of this driving force, at all. I think it is a great source of social health!
In the end I hope it will lead us, when we actually do have common interests — and nothing ought to show that more than this Presidential election — that we hang together.
Chief Mankiller:
That is a wonderful conclusion, actually. No more to be said, when you said that! Are there any more questions?
A young woman in the audience:
I just wanted to say before we went out, that, as Jerry had said, and he can correct me, about how Indians and black persons’ relations are viewed in the community, when you think about it.
Let’s face it, as someone said earlier, and pointed out how African Americans are setting the trends, in terms of style, in terms of shorthair, music, in everything that we do. And if you don’t look any further, then you have the gangs, that are going around in the community.
This is what I would like to see us, what I would want us to deal with more, and, get down to the nitty gritty issues, you know. Look at these things, you know, look at what the Indian communities are trying to deal with, their, you know, "quote unquote" identity, what they are trying to be, to try to emulate.... (??)
That is where a lot these influences are coming in. They usually are not finding that identity within their own culture, and it seems like that they have to go outside.
Chief Mankiller:
Deborah will start with a final comment:
Ms. Tucker:
First of all I think that most of us realize, actually I am shocked how sometimes we don’t think about it, as African Americans, but very very few of us in this country are full blooded Africans, whose ancestors are only Africans. Like, someone else mentioned, if we were in South Africa, almost all blacks in this country would be considered "colored" which is a mixture. I think that by knowing our history, right here in Minnesota, there is a county in Northwest of here, Bonga county. And, I am just shocked at how many people don’t know who George Bonga was. He was a black Indian, who had two or three trade posts, and was very influential in the area, not far from the White Earth Reservation. And, do people know who Bonga was when they go through Bonga County or do they realize the role he played in the state’s development.
Even out that far, even as remote as Northwestern Minnesota is, blacks were there. And in Michigan, Chief Pontiac was what we call "ace boon coon" with De Sable, the founder of Chicago. They hung out together and Pontiac convinced DeSable to run away from slavery. So the mixture – when you find out these things, and that is how the British got Mackinaw Island, by using DeSable, saying "well, we want Mackinaw Island. " Pontiac said "no!" They came back about a year later and said "we want Mackinaw Island" "No" and they said "well, we have got your man DeSable, if you don’t give it up, we are putting him back into slavery."
So, knowing our history, we would really be surprised. In every state, it doesn't matter how remote, as we moved West, we are all affected by this mixture.
Chief Mankiller:
thank you for attending and being so attentive. Thank you so much for your wonderful questions. I hope we can keep this going. Come to the reception.
THE KANSAS INSTITUTE
for AFRICAN AMERICAN and
NATIVE AMERICAN
FAMILY HISTORY
Web site: http://web.mit.edu/wjohnson/www/kiaanafh/KIAANAFH_PORTAL_PAGE.html
ABOUT THE KIAANAFH
The KIAANAFH is an independent, non-profit, tax exempt, membership organization founded in 1991 to promote the preservation, documentation and appreciation of family identity, traditions, and achievements of the members of the African American and Native American communities of the Mid-West. The KIAANAFH aims to assist families with a regional base of ancestral roots and widely scattered branches, to know, preserve, strengthen and celebrate their own achievements.
The KIAANAFH was founded by persons whose parents or grandparents were/are still resident in Kansas, or whose current work is associated with the study and preservation of historical material relating to Kansas. Many of them represent mixtures of African American and Native American descent, freedman, or comrade in arms connections. Many of them are academicians, in a variety of fields, who believe that resources can be mobilized to assist families to document themselves more fully and to preserve their important memorabilia. In particular, they aim to improve the resource base for revealing and commemorating the neglected and difficult to document aspects of African American and Native American genealogical and historical relationships.
Chief Wilma ManKiller
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